[bigbulge]

maptravel86, on May 30 2011, 12:28 AM, said:

Thanks for your suggestion, my friend just sms me that he has just posted in STOMP

http://talkback.stom...253#post3100253

Other than your friend, how do you feel about the incident? Would you have done the same?

[maptra...]

sorcerorstone, on May 29 2011, 09:35 PM, said:

You know what ?

Go to Stomp and start a thread there. Sure to get a lot of attention !

Cali would not be where they are now if not for us gay boys patronizing them !

So now that they got their ranks filled with gay members, they can act arrogant ?

... and u dun need to reveal ur identity posting on Stomp.

WTF !

Anyways, why did you not get the names of the personal trainers ? esp that arrogant pee brain ? I am sure he has gay customers who pay his ass for personal training. Get the name and post him here.

Label him gay basher... make everyone boycott him !

Thanks for your suggestion, my friend just sms me that he has just posted in STOMP

http://talkback.stom...253#post3100253

[Veil_...]

gstc82, on May 30 2011, 12:06 AM, said:

these places have secirity cameras everywhere except in change room. it will be captured in camera.

Cameras cannot capture "fucking gay" and eye power leh, unless the cameras record sound. No pushing or shoving could be captured as there was none.

Cameras could only capture the relative size and the proximity of the BIG and the small. But if there were any dumbells, barbells, poles, hand fists or anything other hard objects raised and directed at the victim who then wetted his pants, very clear evidence of assault was made out.

This post has been edited by Veil_of_Ignorance: 30 May 2011 - 12:20 AM

[gstc82]

CF and true fitness has been haressing me for years. they kept on calling me to join theor membership. they will claim someone gave them my number, lies!! i am very carefull with my HP number, i dun give to anyone. i can only recall i gave my HP once to TRUE SPA years ago. from then, they will haress me few times ayear even after i tell them 2 stop.

if CF and True Fitness owned by patrick wee? i will support by calling CF in the morning to ask them if are anti gay.

these places have secirity cameras everywhere except in change room. it will be captured in camera.

your friend shd have immediately call the police for assistance.

[Veil_...]

youngjohnny, on May 29 2011, 10:36 PM, said:

Regardless of what happens, CF's has totally no right to use abusive words at its members.

I believe, the vuglarities can constitue as civil offence, even if is not serious enough to be criminal offence.

Yup.
i) Sue under tort of assault in civil case. Win it, win damages. Lose it, lose $$$ and face. See who to sue: the company, employee, or both.

ii) Prosecute under criminal law. Win it and win justice. Lose it, lose nothing.

[maptra...]

One_of_us, on May 29 2011, 10:13 PM, said:

In any case, your friend is entitled, at the minimum, to have his complaint formalized and filed by the establishment as an antecedent related to the trainers involved. If the establishment is smart, they should decide to penalize the trainers and give your friend some time of compensation (like extend membership for free for a certain period)

I always thought that California fitness is a gay-friendly club but when the trainer scold my friend "fucking gay" and get supported by his colleagues who did not do anything, I doubt so.

In my friend's letter of complain he said "To my horror, when that personal trainer told the manager that I am on a hurry, the manager and his staff were giggling and laughing."

So will this anti-gay establishment who did not take things seriously penalize the trainers and give my friend compensation. My friend doubt so and so do I.

youngjohnny, on May 29 2011, 10:36 PM, said:

Regardless of what happens, CF's has totally no right to use abusive words at its members.

I believe, the vuglarities can constitue as civil offence, even if is not serious enough to be criminal offence.

I think that personal trainer and CF also know my friend can't do much about this since it is not criminal offence and that is why that personal trainer is so daring to shout "fucking gay" loudly at least 3 times in front of his client and his colleagues.

So that this mean my friend can't make police report?

Then how to go about filing a civil offence against that trainer. Do my friend has to go to extend to engage a lawyer. Will he be able to win such a lawsuit?

Any lawyer here can give some advice?

[youngj...]

Regardless of what happens, CF's has totally no right to use abusive words at its members.

I believe, the vuglarities can constitue as civil offence, even if is not serious enough to be criminal offence.

[maptra...]

sorcerorstone, on May 29 2011, 09:35 PM, said:

Anyways, why did you not get the names of the personal trainers ? esp that arrogant pee brain ? I am sure he has gay customers who pay his ass for personal training. Get the name and post him here.

Label him gay basher... make everyone boycott him !

My friend only noticed that the trainers wore name tags towards the end of the incident. He managed to get name of the male trainer who repeatedly scold him "fucking gay".

I have censored the name of the trainer when I post my friend mail that he forwarded to me here and put it as Mr K as I thought one of the forum rule is no personal attack with name?

After he left the gym, he realised that he should have taken note of all the names of the staff that are involved in the incident. But he said he is not going back to get the names for his own safety. He is also puzzled why they kept forcing him to show his membership card. He was so traumatized by the whole incident that for a moment he though that they want his membership card so that they will know his particulars like his name and address and send someone to beat him up, go to his house to hang pig head, pour paint or make nuisance call.

I remember reading an article about foreigner get scolded for removing tissue paper that singaporean placed to reserved table at food centre. So is this what happen when you ask the female trainer not to put her book to reserved the machine or remove her book she used to reserved machine?

Anyone know why the staffs keep asking my friend for his membership card?

[Veil_...]

The mental element:
- At least 1 of the 5 intentionally or recklessly caused the victim to apprehend immediate infliction of harm

"I feel threaten by Mr K behavior and he is bigger built then me"
"For my own safety, I told that male personal trainer that I am on a hurry"


The acts causing the fear in the victim:
"kept staring at me"
"To my horror he scolded me 'gay' in front of his own male client"
"Because you are a fucking gay"
"rushes forward towards and stand very close to me".
"What is the problem with you. Do you have any issue with personal trainer?"
"rushing forward standing very close to me and questioning me while I am pulling the cable at the seated row machine"

An assault can now be committed by words.

[One_of_us]

I have some long experience with gym protocols, gym courtesy, behavior rules in the US, and I imagine that they are not much different in Singapore.

I often run into conflicts with people over the use of gym equipment, so I see the need for an establishment to have clearly defined rules of conduct and have them openly displayed in easy view. But I have seen very few places who do this, and I imagine this would be my first line of defense if I ever have a serious conflict, which I fortunately never had so far.

A commercial gym likes to present itself as offering a friendly atmosphere, where people happily share the resources in perfect harmony. This is an utopia, of course, and the limits of civility are often stretched by limited resources and unconsiderate behavior of people.

Equipment "in use": this is clear when a person is using a machine. But it's not so clear when he is not using it at the moment but still feels "in possession" of it. This possession should extend to reasonable periods of rest inbetween sets. It is nice when a person relinquishes the machine during his rest periods, letting someone else "work in", but this should be at the discression of the person and not forced upon anybody. It also should include short times away from the machine, when the person goes to take a sip of water from a nearby fountain. This requires the person to leave a personal object at the machine as a sign, which should be possible since everyone should carry at least a small towel to wipe off a machine after use.

Any person should be entitled to have possession of at most one machine at the time. This means that if someone leaves a machine to work on another one, or do another kind of exercising, the original machine is fair game for whoever wants to use it, NO MATTER how much stuff the original user left behind. Some people like to do alternate work on several machines in one round, and they should be able to do this IF nobody else wants to use them. But if they work on one machine, they cannot claim rights over another, even if they have left all their stuff there. "Sorry, I moved your (whatever) because I saw you working on another machine."

Any machine that is left unused and unmarked for enough time that there is no obvious indication that it is in use, should be free for anybody to take it. If the "original" user comes back and wans to continue using it, he should be prepared to wait until it becomes free again. "Sorry, I saw that it was not being used, I won't be long, and you can use it when I'm done (smile)".

Unless there is a clearly posted policy by the establishment, trainers and their clients should not have priority in the use of equipment over any other customer. Very few places have such policy, and when they do, it is limited to a certain area of the gym, and for machines that are not unique to the place.
-----

In the episode with your friend, there are two aspects:

1) the trainer's attempt to reserve a machine while using other equipment elsewhere in the gym, and his starting of a conflict because the machine didn't remain reserved. The latter is the most serious aspect. This calls for the establishment to respond with a preexisting clear policy about use of equipment and rules of engagement between trainers and customers. Also an explanation is due of why there was no manager on hand to handle the conflict.

2) the use of insulting, abusive language by the trainer/s during the incident. This can be considered "verbal assault".

In any case, your friend is entitled, at the minimum, to have his complaint formalized and filed by the establishment as an antecedent related to the trainers involved. If the establishment is smart, they should decide to penalize the trainers and give your friend some time of compensation (like extend membership for free for a certain period)

[maptra...]

bigbulge, on May 29 2011, 09:10 PM, said:

Did they physically abuse you?

I have checked with my friend. During the incident, they did not physically abuse my friend.

However, my friend told me that male trainer body language was very aggressive. The trainer was in the boxing area with his client when he suddenly lifted up the rope at the side and rush towards my friend and stand very closed to him and shouted "What is the problem with you. Do you have any issue with personal trainer?".

My friend said he was pulling the seated row cable halfway when this happen. For a moment, he told the trainer who is bigger built than him is going to beat him up. He said he stay cool and continue to pull the cable as he did not expect and did not know how to react to the trainer aggressive at that moment. At the mean time, the trainer continue to verbally abuse him without considering my friend safety or his own safety since he is standing so close to my friend who is doing the seated row.

The worst thing is my friend said male trainer's male client witness the incident and did not do anything when the trainer continuous verbally abused my friend using words like "gay" and "fucking gay".

[Veil_...]

bigbulge, on May 29 2011, 09:10 PM, said:

Did they physically abuse you?

No need to be physical, ie no touching is needed.

Eye power + big size + "fucking gay" causing a small sized guy to apprehend immediate and personal violence is enough.

[Veil_...]

maptravel86, on May 29 2011, 09:34 PM, said:

My friend said he has considered to write to ST forum but he also worried that his name or particular need to be revealed to ST forum as ST forum needs reader to fill up their particular.

Do u means that it is possible to make police report about a trainer scolding member "fucking gay"? Do police entertain this type of complain?
So does this mean my friend go to the police station and said "Good morning sir, a california fitness personal trainer scolded me as a fucking gay". What can the police do?

The police may classify the case as assault, chargeable under section 351 of the Penal Code.

Assault
351. Whoever makes any gesture or any preparation, intending or knowing it to be likely that such gesture or preparation will cause any person present to apprehend that he who makes that gesture or preparation is about to use criminal force to that person, is said to commit an assault.

Explanation.—Mere words do not amount to an assault. But the words which a person uses may give to his gestures or preparations such a meaning as may make those gestures or preparations amount to an assault.

Illustrations

(a) A shakes his fist at Z, intending or knowing it to be likely that he may thereby cause Z to believe that A is about to strike Z. A has committed an assault.

( A begins to unloose the muzzle of a ferocious dog, intending or knowing it to be likely that he may thereby cause Z to believe that he is about to cause the dog to attack Z. A has committed an assault upon Z.

© A takes up a stick, saying to Z, “I will give you a beating”. Here, though the words used by A could in no case amount to an assault, and though the mere gesture, unaccompanied by any other circumstances might not amount to an assault, the gesture explained by the words may amount to an assault.

[sorcer...]

You know what ?

Go to Stomp and start a thread there. Sure to get a lot of attention !

Cali would not be where they are now if not for us gay boys patronizing them !

So now that they got their ranks filled with gay members, they can act arrogant ?

... and u dun need to reveal ur identity posting on Stomp.

WTF !

Anyways, why did you not get the names of the personal trainers ? esp that arrogant pee brain ? I am sure he has gay customers who pay his ass for personal training. Get the name and post him here.

Label him gay basher... make everyone boycott him !

This post has been edited by sorcerorstone: 29 May 2011 - 09:40 PM

[maptra...]

pisces, on May 29 2011, 09:02 PM, said:

make a police report n write to ST forum, name names....

My friend said he has considered to write to ST forum but he also worried that his name or particular need to be revealed to ST forum as ST forum needs reader to fill up their particular.

Do u means that it is possible to make police report about a trainer scolding member "fucking gay"? Do police entertain this type of complain?
So does this mean my friend go to the police station and said "Good morning sir, a california fitness personal trainer scolded me as a fucking gay". What can the police do?

[bigbulge]

maptravel86, on May 29 2011, 08:35 PM, said:

My friend got so piss off by California Fitness male Personal Trainer who scold him "fucking gay" that he has forward me the complaint that he has sent to CF. Tell me what you think about this incident.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear California Fitness

This incident happened on Sunday 29 May 2011 at 12.45pm at California Fitness Singapore Orchard Branch. I was at the seated row machine. A book was placed at the seat and so I waited for 5 mins but no one comes to use the machine. I put the book at the side and start using the machine. Halfway, a female personal trainer came and told me that she and her female client are using the machine just now. She and her client were during some exercise at the other side. I told her that as a personal trainer, she should not have reserve seat like putting a book on the machine and deprive other members from using the machine. She did not apologize for her wrong doing but instead demanded that I have to let her client use the machine now. She then complained to her male colleague Mr K (a personal trainer) who is nearby with his own client.

As I continue to work out, I noticed that her colleague Mr K kept staring at me. When I asked him why he kept staring at me, he replied that he did not stare at me and instead turn around and said that I am staring at him. I told him who want to stare at him and I continued to do the seated row exercise. To my horror he scolded me 'gay' in front of his own male client.

I asked him why he scolded me 'gay' and Mr K replied "Because you are a fucking gay" and then he rushes forward towards and stand very close to me. I feel threaten by Mr K behavior and he is bigger built then me. I was still doing the seating row exercise halfway when he questioned me "What is the problem with you. Do you have any issue with personal trainer?" Mr K is very rude, loud, and inconsiderate; do not consider member safety and his own safety by rushing forward standing very close to me and questioning me while I am pulling the cable at the seated row machine.

Another female staff at the counter came. I told her I want to see the manager as I want to feedback to the manager that personal trainer Mr K scold me “fucking gay”. The female counter staff claimed that the manager is not in and asked me for my membership card. I told her that I am exercising halfway and my membership card is still with the towel staff. To get back the membership card, I need to return the towel to the towel staff but I have not finished working out. The female counter staff continues to insist that I give her my membership card without explaining why she needs the membership card. Suddenly Mr K scolded me “fucking gay” the second time in front of the female personal trainer and the female counter staff. Mr K in front of the two staff then said “Stop behaving like a fucking gay and act like a man. Give your membership card to us now!” I was alone at the time of the incident. 3 staffs against one member. I have no mood left to continue my workout.

When I was about to leave the gym, I saw a male staff wearing long sleeves grey shirt at the counter. I believe that that he is in the management position or manager so I approach him to feedback to him that Mr K scolded me using rude words like “fucking gay”. Instead of asking me to sit down to discuss the incident, he just say to his staff “get his member ship card”. I am very disappointed with his reply and left. As I approached the lift, that management staff in long sleeves grey shirt ask another male personal trainer to follow me into the lift and downstairs to get my membership card. In addition, I am shock that male personal trainer used his leg to prevent the lift door from closing with another gym member in the lift. For my own safety, I told that male personal trainer that I am on a hurry. To my horror, when that personal trainer told the manager that I am on a hurry, the manager and his staff were giggling and laughing.

I was traumatized and feel threatened by this incident as I am alone and have to deal with 5 unreasonable California staffs especially Mr K who is bigger built than me and scold me “fucking gay” at least 3 times. I don’t understand why I need to produce membership card to feedback to the manager about the incident. What did I do wrong? Why should I give them the membership card? They are in the wrong because the whole incident started because I told the female personal trainer that she should not have reserve seat like putting a book on the machine and deprive other members from using the machine. And Mr K who is a professional personal trainer and staff of CF lose his cool and scolded member “fucking gay” more than 3 times.

I am not able to provide details like membership member or full name as I worry that the staff that I feedback about may get hold of my personal details. Please do not tell the 5 staffs involved about my email or particulars.

The 5 CF staffs involved in this incident are:
1) Mr K (Personal Trainer)
2) A female personal trainer who reserved the machine by putting a book on the seat. (I don’t know her name but Mr K should know who)
3) A female counter staff who ask me for membership card ( I don’t know her name but Mr K should know who)
4) The management staff (manager?) wear long sleeve grey shirt at the counter at on 29 May 2011 around 1pm.
5) The male personal trainer (non Chinese) that used his leg to block the lift door.

My questions for CF are:
1) Is it CF policy that personal trainer reserve machine by putting something like a book on the seat?
2) Is it CF policy that personal trainer can leave his/her clients unattended and waste their time when confronting other members?
3) Is it CF policy that their personal trainer can use vulgarity on members and label members as “gay” and “fucking gay”?
4) Is it CF policy to get the membership card first before listening to your member’s feedback or complaint.
5) Is it CF policy that their staff don’t need to be tactful, show empathy, listen to their members encounter or feedback.

I am very disappointed with CF and hope that you can do an investigation regard the incident and give me an email reply regarding the incident.

It is a fact that CASE Singapore received hundreds of complaints about CF every year. A lot of CF members also complained in forum about the poor services. But I never expected anything like this incident to happen.

If I do not receive an email reply from CF in a week time, then I have to feedback this incident to the relevant authority that can do me justice.

Thank you.
Regards
Mr W

---------------------------------------------------------------


Tell me what you think about this incident experienced by my friend.

My friend asked me which authority can he feedback this incident to if CF did not reply his email or take actions. I am not sure how to help him.

Anyone know what authority or what else can my friend do?

Did they physically abuse you?

[pisces]

make a police report n write to ST forum, name names....

having said that, i would also lik to hear CF's side of the story.

Sometimes, in the heat of the moment, our judgement do get clouded somehow.

This post has been edited by pisces: 30 May 2011 - 01:06 PM

[maptra...]

My friend got so piss off by California Fitness male Personal Trainer who scold him "fucking gay" that he has forward me the complaint that he has sent to CF. Tell me what you think about this incident.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear California Fitness

This incident happened on Sunday 29 May 2011 at 12.45pm at California Fitness Singapore Orchard Branch. I was at the seated row machine. A book was placed at the seat and so I waited for 5 mins but no one comes to use the machine. I put the book at the side and start using the machine. Halfway, a female personal trainer came and told me that she and her female client are using the machine just now. She and her client were during some exercise at the other side. I told her that as a personal trainer, she should not have reserve seat like putting a book on the machine and deprive other members from using the machine. She did not apologize for her wrong doing but instead demanded that I have to let her client use the machine now. She then complained to her male colleague Mr K (a personal trainer) who is nearby with his own client.

As I continue to work out, I noticed that her colleague Mr K kept staring at me. When I asked him why he kept staring at me, he replied that he did not stare at me and instead turn around and said that I am staring at him. I told him who want to stare at him and I continued to do the seated row exercise. To my horror he scolded me 'gay' in front of his own male client.

I asked him why he scolded me 'gay' and Mr K replied "Because you are a fucking gay" and then he rushes forward towards and stand very close to me. I feel threaten by Mr K behavior and he is bigger built then me. I was still doing the seating row exercise halfway when he questioned me "What is the problem with you. Do you have any issue with personal trainer?" Mr K is very rude, loud, and inconsiderate; do not consider member safety and his own safety by rushing forward standing very close to me and questioning me while I am pulling the cable at the seated row machine.

Another female staff at the counter came. I told her I want to see the manager as I want to feedback to the manager that personal trainer Mr K scold me “fucking gay”. The female counter staff claimed that the manager is not in and asked me for my membership card. I told her that I am exercising halfway and my membership card is still with the towel staff. To get back the membership card, I need to return the towel to the towel staff but I have not finished working out. The female counter staff continues to insist that I give her my membership card without explaining why she needs the membership card. Suddenly Mr K scolded me “fucking gay” the second time in front of the female personal trainer and the female counter staff. Mr K in front of the two staff then said “Stop behaving like a fucking gay and act like a man. Give your membership card to us now!” I was alone at the time of the incident. 3 staffs against one member. I have no mood left to continue my workout.

When I was about to leave the gym, I saw a male staff wearing long sleeves grey shirt at the counter. I believe that that he is in the management position or manager so I approach him to feedback to him that Mr K scolded me using rude words like “fucking gay”. Instead of asking me to sit down to discuss the incident, he just say to his staff “get his member ship card”. I am very disappointed with his reply and left. As I approached the lift, that management staff in long sleeves grey shirt ask another male personal trainer to follow me into the lift and downstairs to get my membership card. In addition, I am shock that male personal trainer used his leg to prevent the lift door from closing with another gym member in the lift. For my own safety, I told that male personal trainer that I am on a hurry. To my horror, when that personal trainer told the manager that I am on a hurry, the manager and his staff were giggling and laughing.

I was traumatized and feel threatened by this incident as I am alone and have to deal with 5 unreasonable California staffs especially Mr K who is bigger built than me and scold me “fucking gay” at least 3 times. I don’t understand why I need to produce membership card to feedback to the manager about the incident. What did I do wrong? Why should I give them the membership card? They are in the wrong because the whole incident started because I told the female personal trainer that she should not have reserve seat like putting a book on the machine and deprive other members from using the machine. And Mr K who is a professional personal trainer and staff of CF lose his cool and scolded member “fucking gay” more than 3 times.

I am not able to provide details like membership member or full name as I worry that the staff that I feedback about may get hold of my personal details. Please do not tell the 5 staffs involved about my email or particulars.

The 5 CF staffs involved in this incident are:
1) Mr K (Personal Trainer)
2) A female personal trainer who reserved the machine by putting a book on the seat. (I don’t know her name but Mr K should know who)
3) A female counter staff who ask me for membership card ( I don’t know her name but Mr K should know who)
4) The management staff (manager?) wear long sleeve grey shirt at the counter at on 29 May 2011 around 1pm.
5) The male personal trainer (non Chinese) that used his leg to block the lift door.

My questions for CF are:
1) Is it CF policy that personal trainer reserve machine by putting something like a book on the seat?
2) Is it CF policy that personal trainer can leave his/her clients unattended and waste their time when confronting other members?
3) Is it CF policy that their personal trainer can use vulgarity on members and label members as “gay” and “fucking gay”?
4) Is it CF policy to get the membership card first before listening to your member’s feedback or complaint.
5) Is it CF policy that their staff don’t need to be tactful, show empathy, listen to their members encounter or feedback.

I am very disappointed with CF and hope that you can do an investigation regard the incident and give me an email reply regarding the incident.

It is a fact that CASE Singapore received hundreds of complaints about CF every year. A lot of CF members also complained in forum about the poor services. But I never expected anything like this incident to happen.

If I do not receive an email reply from CF in a week time, then I have to feedback this incident to the relevant authority that can do me justice.

Thank you.
Regards
Mr W

---------------------------------------------------------------


Tell me what you think about this incident experienced by my friend.

My friend asked me which authority can he feedback this incident to if CF did not reply his email or take actions. I am not sure how to help him.

Anyone know what authority or what else can my friend do?